Nikhil Mohanlal (00:02)
Hello and welcome back to CyBytes, the podcast that brings conversations with those working in cybersecurity here in UAE. My name is Nick, I am a trainer And today we have Chris, a humble yet driven and ambitious L2 analyst.
I met him not long ago and when I talked to him he had such an interesting story to tell
We talk about why he chose to leave game development as a career path and actually pursue cyber security and what it entailed. We get into the real nitty gritty details about working as an L2 here in UAE We also talk about how to cultivate curiosity inside and outside of cyber security. How it's not just baked into us, we can actually develop it.
And finally, we talk about why beefing up your LinkedIn can make navigating this crazy industry in Dubai a little bit easier. Enjoy.
Nik Mohanlal (00:51)
Hello, Chris. How you doing? Welcome to the podcast. It's not like we were just talking for like 20 minutes. Yeah, man. I'm excited to have you on. You know, you were one of the trainees that I got to teach. I got to train a little bit. And you did show a lot of expertise and you support a lot of the team, which I really liked, which is why I wanted to get you on.
Chris Prince (00:53)
Hey Nick, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, not at all, not at all.
I'm glad to be here,
Tim.
I appreciate that.
Nik Mohanlal (01:21)
And yeah, man, you know, like we've spoken about before, you have a very unique journey. You're relatively new to the space, but not so much. You're kind of like, I would call it a little bit midway. can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's key for a lot of people to even just learn about your story and how you got involved, right? Again, this is what this podcast is about. Not just talking about why and what you do in cyber, but how you got into cyber, like actual, like, you your interests and...
Chris Prince (01:32)
Yeah, yeah, no absolutely
into it.
Nik Mohanlal (01:51)
what you do outside of it as well. And the guidance that you can provide for people, new joiners or people who are new grads or struggling to move out of IT or something, you know what I mean? Hell yeah, hell yeah. Cool. So I mean, let's jump straight into it. Give us your crisp prints. Give us a background of who you are and what you do.
Chris Prince (01:52)
Absolutely.
you
Yeah, I've got some opinions, that's for sure.
Yeah Yeah,
my name is Chris Prince. I've been in the cyber security industry for about eight eight eight years or so and You know, it's it's been it's been a good journey thus far I've gotten to deal with a lot of interesting things things that in an area that interests me and You know, I'm excited to to talk more about my experiences and you know what I've dealt with
past few years. So hit me with some good questions Nick, let's get started.
Nik Mohanlal (02:44)
Fair enough, fair enough. So,
I mean, like you said, you've had a lot of experience in cyber. You do a lot of really interesting stuff with the company that you work for. It's not often that it's a job, right? For a lot of people, cyber is quite the passion and that is very common piece of advice that you get. why cyber first? Why did you decide to move?
Chris Prince (03:01)
Mm-hmm.
Nik Mohanlal (03:11)
to cyber security? Why not something into like comp sky or even or something completely different, accounting or whatever, you know.
Chris Prince (03:15)
day.
I actually started out with ComSci and I was initially hell-bent on becoming a full-time programmer and ideally a a game development programmer. And that was where my interest in IT and computer science as a whole really took shape. Fortunately, during the course of my education, I got introduced to the concept of cyber security and
it fascinated me. was very cool and you know, I could see my interest and curiosity kind of shift towards this whole area that I've never heard of, you know. And so the more I learned about cyber security and the different aspects of it, the more I could see myself like falling in love with, you know, what I was doing, what I was learning, what I was seeing. And it all seemed very interesting, but it was very, very different.
from the traditional computer science programming kind of pathway that I had initially hoped to take. And then the more I looked into the career and my future prospects with cyber security, the more convinced I was that this was a career that I could bet my time on, my time and efforts on. I truly, think that the year was around 2014, so about like 10, 11 years ago.
I was like, you know, one year into college and I completely shifted into a cyber security program because I truly believed it would be a solid stable career. wasn't only the passion. It wasn't only the curiosity. It was also, you know, a little bit of a risk, you know, a gamble in terms of this is the career I want to take. And I don't know if my mind would change halfway through or maybe in a decade or so. But, you know, we will.
cross that bridge when we get to it that was the idea yeah and honestly thus far looking back on it it's been it's been a rewarding and you know a very fulfilling career thus far
Nik Mohanlal (05:17)
Nice.
Nice.
That's quite interesting actually how you moved from gaming into cyber. know, I personally... Nice. Hell yeah. I'm gonna pick your brain about that a little bit later as well. Yeah, man. You bring up a good point as well. I think we spoke about this before is that even for myself, I made the same sort of transition, right?
Chris Prince (05:33)
Yeah, I'm a huge gamer dude. I love my games. I grew up with them. For sure, for sure.
Nik Mohanlal (05:51)
I initially wanted to become a sound engineer. I remember when I was going to university and then it was actually, it was my parents who said, actually, well, there's no prospects in that. As per usual, they're like, maybe you want to make money, be a doctor, whatever. Typical Indian parents. But there was truth in that. So I thought, you know let's take a look at this. I don't want to do computers or anything like that. I was supposedly good at it, but then I learned about cyber. I knew that was a thing, but I didn't know anything about it. And so I read it and I thought,
Chris Prince (05:54)
Right.
Difficult, difficult Indian parents, yeah. Absolutely.
Great.
Nik Mohanlal (06:20)
Like you said, it's cool. Cyber looked cool. Even the word itself felt like, And I think a lot of people kind of forget that as well, is that this is, I guess for me, that was the reason why I stay. And for a lot of others it is as well. But again, I find it's tough to find these kinds of people who still think it's cool. You know what I mean?
Chris Prince (06:22)
It looked cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, no
Yeah, my experience thus far is yeah, very few people truly look at cyber security from a lens of interest a lot of them at this point, you know the people around me They look at it like a job, you know, and the truth of the matter is it is a job too There is a very solid truthful aspect to that
But I believe it's the curiosity and the interest that really drives us in this career, in this field. Largely because I believe IT and cyber security being a subset of that is a unique field in which there's continuous growth and learning. Things are changing every two, three, five years or so in those steps and iterations. It's very different from accounting.
Let's say where you have, you know, solid principles, solid concepts and those concepts are, you know, the building blocks that are never going to change and people just develop their experience on top of that. In IT and cybersecurity, you could be, you know, master of, you know, tool set and three years down the line, there's a completely different tool that's going to do everything that you, you you perfected.
Nik Mohanlal (07:40)
Mm-mm.
Chris Prince (08:08)
in a totally different way and then you start from scratch. So personally I think, a very important characteristic to find success in this IT and cybersecurity industry is to be able to start from scratch, to become a beginner as often as possible. Because that's essentially what we would be doing on a regular basis
Nik Mohanlal (08:10)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's AI.
Yeah, that's a good positive turn on imposter syndrome. When you're starting from scratch, you really have to feel humbled by it. good because there will be multiple, multiple times where you feel humbled by someone else, whether it's an ego thing or whether it's something that you just don't know about or it's a new tool set. If I'm going in as a SOC L1, right?
Chris Prince (08:35)
Yeah, no, Yo,
Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (08:55)
And I have my handful of experience. have my CYSA +, I have my SEC +, I've got, I even got EJPT. I'm excited, fresh faced, and you go in and then you look at some of the other L1s who have maybe years of experience and they're like seasoned already. And that's the thing where you feel like you don't know enough because they're ahead of you. And it's very common for us to feel that, whether it's in cyber or anywhere else.
Chris Prince (08:58)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (09:24)
in any other space. so understanding how to navigate that is a tough part. And so you brought up a good perspective on this because if you just have to consider the fact that you're still a beginner, you're always going to be a beginner, no matter how many years of experience you have. have CISOs with 20 years of experience who don't know what malware analysis is, you know?
Chris Prince (09:24)
Absolutely.
Yeah,
absolutely, And it's all about the mindset, And it's something that I am still dealing with in terms of how to really get into the mindset of approaching things as if they were new, as if they were fresh, and trying to develop different perspectives.
the nature of my work as a SOC analyst, a cyber security analyst, we deal with alerts and deal with this type of alert fatigue essentially. deal with alerts of similar natures, a lot of false positives on a regular basis. So if you don't keep things fresh in terms of how you're approaching and viewing the challenges you're facing, there's a good chance you're going to be left out and you're not going to provide
value eventually.
Nik Mohanlal (10:37)
That's yeah, that is a tough part. think I want to dig deep into that as well about your experience as a SOC analyst. So You're an L2. And how long have you been an L2 for?
Chris Prince (10:44)
Yeah.
yes, yeah.
For about one and a half or so years right now.
Nik Mohanlal (10:54)
Okay, nice. So what are some of the key, factors that differentiate an L1 from L2, from your experience, not from a roles experience or like a job description you see on LinkedIn.
Chris Prince (11:03)
Right, right, right, right.
Give me a second, let me just find a good JD. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I think a good, area in which you can see a difference between an L1 and an L2 is the way they communicate. An L1 will try to keep things as simple as possible.
Nik Mohanlal (11:07)
Sure,
Chris Prince (11:25)
not get into too much of the details, know. They won't be too keen to try and communicate to others as much. At least this is how my experience has gone. As an L2, and this is my personal experience on it has been, as an L1, I would just give straight-laced answers. this is your question? Well, this is the answer. I'm not going to risk going in too deep and get lost and confused. as I...
gained more experience, I've been able to take those leaps into the unknown and make certain guesses, educated guesses of course. And I think that's the difference I see in terms of an L1 or an L2 analyst. it's just the willingness to take the extra step forward, whether it is in terms of communication, in terms of your analysis, in terms of how you're,
communicating to your team members.
Nik Mohanlal (12:20)
Yeah, it doesn't matter what level of competence you're at. the tough part isn't technical stuff. It's communicating those technical stuff. Right. that's something I try and it took me a while to figure out as well. Yeah, it's a matter of time and, you know, time experience, but what I find helps a lot as well, especially for L1s. And this is something I'm a big advocate for.
Chris Prince (12:23)
Mm-hmm.
Right, communication.
Same here.
period.
Nik Mohanlal (12:46)
is lightning talks, right? Just like we're doing now, we're talking about our experiences, you know, this is a new format, but you want to put yourself in the position where your communication is tested, So lightning talks is a fantastic way. It's a very safe and quick and easy way. You don't feel the pressure of going to a 500 person conference and presenting what SQL injection is, right? It's, you're doing it to your team and
Chris Prince (13:03)
Easy, but...
Nik Mohanlal (13:12)
And this is something I really like to see SOC managers do, or SOC teams, IR teams, whoever else, is if they're seeing a problem in communication within their team, whether there's not enough information being shared, maybe they're quite timid, there's some kind of cliques being formed. You want to kind of abolish that.
Chris Prince (13:33)
No, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (13:38)
little nuances and annoying things will get abolished when they start speaking up. if there's an exactly, you know, you should task someone to say, give me something you learned about last week, you know, this week, I want you to read up on this new. Yeah. Exactly.
Chris Prince (13:44)
you as you communicate.
this concept and you know talk about it that's it talk about what you've
you know what you figured what you think your opinions on it yeah I think communication is key and this this is you know irrespective of the industry we're in in any industry communication and it's you know it's core to do who we are as human beings it's just communication
Nik Mohanlal (14:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's tough for
IT guys and tech people because we're like we we can sometimes we can communicate better on the terminal than we can on in front of humans Legit yeah, my head goes I have a direct relation to my fingers than my head. I do to my mouth
Chris Prince (14:23)
Yeah.
I'm a chat god dude, can chat. My fingers move faster than my mouth at times. yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Nik Mohanlal (14:39)
As an L2, what are some negative experiences you feel? Because a lot of the times when people are applying for jobs, the job descriptions or the recruiters or whoever, they'll tell you a lot.
I think it's important for lot of people to come in prepared or least knowledgeable to know what to expect, know, and part of that is understanding the bad side of things. So from your experience as an L2, what would you say are some of the negative things aside from shifts and alert fatigue?
Chris Prince (15:10)
Right. That's a little bit of a tough one because I wouldn't talk about the negative experience in terms of an L2 or the perspective of an L2 alone, just in terms of how cybersecurity is being looked at from a business perspective. And I think that has a tinge and a shade of negativity to it. And that's what I'd like to focus on. I think, at least again,
All of it is just from my experience and my thoughts are based on the... There is a lack of understanding and support from the decision makers, from the executive level of many companies. I'm talking about companies with internal cyber security teams. From a business perspective, cyber security is essentially a money drain.
Nik Mohanlal (15:42)
Of course.
Chris Prince (16:04)
over the years. Maybe cyber security was not a big thing a decade ago, but today it's one of the most sought after areas and fields, generally speaking. But when you bring it down to an organizational level, it still hasn't reached that level of interest or value, is my personal belief. I see many other departments in multiple organizations
Nik Mohanlal (16:26)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Prince (16:33)
where you'd have an HR role or an admin role or any of the more business critical functions like HR. And they would be highly sought after, highly valued. I don't see the same level of interest in cybersecurity roles. And that, I believe, is that shade of negativity that I'm talking about, that people have. It's just a lens of negativity that people look at in terms of maybe IT.
but from my experience, cybersecurity specifically. That yeah, we've got our network engineers, we've got our system engineers, they can take care of security on the site. Why do we need a specific cybersecurity engineer or a security engineer? And many organizations, especially your SMEs, don't seem to value this. Obviously, as a business, there are other priorities, and I think cybersecurity has to be one of those.
Nik Mohanlal (17:13)
Hmm.
Yeah, how would you then, based on what you said, how would you prevent this from happening? You know, what could be done to improve the perspectives of people in towards cybersecurity or cyber, so cyber professionals in UAE?
Chris Prince (17:43)
Yeah.
Okay. So there's more so than prevention. It's about changing their perception, right? Because it's already something that's inbuilt in most people right? It's just the culture is that, it's the IT guy, it's the security guy. Yeah, they're just gonna do what they do, right? Like we don't care what they do.
Nik Mohanlal (17:52)
perception.
Yeah.
Chris Prince (18:07)
I think that has to change and so that is going to take a large broader effort from cyber security professionals in terms of ensuring accurate representation of the value we are providing to organizations. It's a weird topic and a weird angle but that's honestly what I think about in terms of negative experiences. and this is something,
Nik Mohanlal (18:32)
Mm.
Chris Prince (18:35)
I've experienced myself too, wherein we've gone to a company-wide event or function. And there are certain teams, certain departments that get the spotlight on them. And your security team, they're back in the corner over there. So yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (18:52)
Yeah, it's a funny perspective that because
I've spoken to people who kind of like being in the shadows, you know, and they sit there like, you know, they don't know what I've done. They don't know what I can do type of attitude. But then there's also those who also share the same sentiment as you that say, you know, I want more recognition because this isn't widely recognized. And I'm kind of of that nature as well.
Chris Prince (19:17)
It comes down to the saying that the baby that cries gets fed. So it's like that. We do want the recognition for the efforts and the work that we put in it. And this I'm talking about broadly, very, very generally. Maybe in specific organizations, the culture is different, the values are different. But generally speaking, is my thought on that, is that, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (19:24)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Chris Prince (19:42)
It's the onus is on cybersecurity professionals to ensure that they are well represented in their organizations. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (19:50)
Yeah, yeah, nice man. That was a good answer.
So now I want to go back a little bit We spoke a little bit about some negative perceptions of cybersecurity you know, we want to talk a little bit about how we can improve that,
Chris Prince (19:56)
Right. Mhm. Yeah. Right.
Nik Mohanlal (20:05)
I think it's important for listeners to understand that perspective. This can happen. It's not an advertising company. You're not going to be in advertising role. But yet we still look at it in a sense like, oh, I have to do all these certs. I have to do all this work. I still don't get valued enough.
Chris Prince (20:21)
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Nik Mohanlal (20:24)
I want to talk to you a little about certifications. This is the ever long question of certification or no certification. And there's never right or wrong answer. But I want to talk specifically here in UAE, because there are some countries that tend to, and this is more of generalized comment, but some countries, the work environment
Chris Prince (20:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Absolutely, yeah.
.
Nik Mohanlal (20:52)
doesn't just factor in the certifications, but also the skill level, which is ideal. However, in UAE, it's not common. That's not common. There are some companies that do this, it's amazing that they do this, but I think personally that it's still a bit behind
Chris Prince (20:53)
factor in the service.
Absolutely. Ideal.
the reason I think this is the case as to why not too many companies are doing a more comprehensive type of process or selection process and why many of them differ to just looking at a certification checklist is I believe the UAE market in itself and the cybersecurity industry over here is a little more fast-paced.
There's a lot of moving parts and a lot of vacancies and lot of opportunities that open up in a day and are closed within the day. So in the pace at which things are moving, a lot of people find it more efficient to look at know, certifications, list of certifications. If you have these certifications that we're looking for, then we can talk about, you know, the next steps.
And if you don't, then that's just tough luck. And that is the reality that I've seen in this industry too. Not in the entry level positions. In the entry level positions, there's still a little bit of flexibility, because I think the understanding is that you may not have all the certifications that would be required, or expected rather. But from...
Nik Mohanlal (22:08)
Mmm.
Chris Prince (22:31)
from your mid to senior level onwards, there is a whole jargon of certifications that I think are must haves in this market. And the reason for that, again, is also that you have people coming in from all over the world applying for these jobs. Cyber security is not region specific. It's a global type of career. You could be sitting here and.
and doing your cyber security work for any other country across the world. And that's what it is essentially and that's where the challenge lies because when you're dealing with multiple people coming in from various different cultures, work ethics, et cetera, and they're all applying for this one position or this one job posting.
the best way from the perspective of your HR, your talent acquisition team, or whoever is really thinning out the herd, they can only refer back to a certification checklist. And so that's why the trend has become, every job posting has a whole list of certificates that are nice to have or must have. And if you don't have that, you are...
effectively applying with the handicap. That's the honest way to put it. In terms of what certifications are valued the most, it really depends on which role specifically. But there are many that are well known and well appreciated globally. those are the expectations over here in this market. And I think that just goes to show the level of
Nik Mohanlal (23:58)
Of course, yeah.
Chris Prince (24:16)
competitiveness in this market and in this industry that you know I've seen job postings for L1s and you know they require a C++ or a CISSP even and I just scratched my head and I'm just like okay cool you know and I don't know if it was just a copy paste from the HR side or if they genuinely know that this is the certification we want from this individual
Nik Mohanlal (24:30)
It's insane. It's insane, yeah.
Mm-mm.
Chris Prince (24:45)
Now me personally, I think it's a mix of certifications that really have value and really drive growth individually. As well as your personal experience and who you are as an individual. I think those are bigger factors than just a certification. A certification at the end of the day is just to certify. It's just tell the world that, I'm capable of this.
Nik Mohanlal (25:09)
Yeah.
100%. People will go into this industry thinking, if I get this certification, I'm going to get that 200k a year dollar job. And it's never the case. And you make a very valid point. Certifications only validate the knowledge. it has to be coupled with your personal profile. It has to be coupled with
Chris Prince (25:20)
Right. It's never the case, Yes, yeah.
Absolutely.
Nik Mohanlal (25:35)
technical and communication skills that you can demonstrate. The soft skills.
Chris Prince (25:38)
Absolutely. The soft skills that matter because
in any industry and especially in the cyber security industry communication and those soft skills matter. You're not it's not a one-man show. It's never a one-man show. So there has to be a certain factoring into how well this individual will work within our team or within our organization. It's not just that he holds the CISSP. That's it. That's all we need. On some level I can understand that that's the need.
Nik Mohanlal (25:50)
Yeah.
Mm.
Chris Prince (26:08)
But there's so much more to it. And I believe that's the gap that we're all feeling as professionals in this industry. That it's too one-dimensional in certain ways when you're just looking at it in terms of a certificate checklist.
Nik Mohanlal (26:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, honestly, it's, you know, I tell a lot of new, new, new grads and new students this as well. Like you will really bolster yourself in this industry with you have those types of abilities, not just the certifications. It's a bit of a personal battle for a lot of people because especially if you're trying to get into a technical space, whether it's L1 or pen testing or anything, These are the actual checklists, I would say.
is get your certs, get good at communicating your thoughts and your skills, and also find a way into the job application. What I mean by that is LinkedIn, easy apply, is not going to get you anywhere. It's not going to get anyone anywhere. It's just a silly little feature that the company can rack numbers in and use for days.
Chris Prince (27:00)
No, not at all. No. Yeah. It's an illusion. It's an illusion. It's just
to trick yourself into believing that, yeah, I've done my part. But no, no, you haven't because, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (27:15)
Yeah, you really haven't. There's a lot more involved. You have to message the recruiters or try to find a way in, talk
to the hiring managers or just be ruthless in that sense.
Chris Prince (27:27)
ruthless about it. And you know,
LinkedIn, while it was very useful, I think pre-COVID in terms of, know, genuinely applying for jobs, having a genuine level of competition and, you know, a fair application process altogether. In today's world, in 2025, it is insufficient. And the easy apply button, it's just a trick. Don't fall for the trick. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (27:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, LinkedIn is something I want to speak to you
about as well because it's drastically different back during COVID 2020, 2019. It was even before that, it was simply just like a online resume, if you will, right? You can connect with your peers or whatnot. But as the times have changed, LinkedIn has changed as well. Right. And you're and a lot of the people's approach to LinkedIn has changed.
Chris Prince (27:57)
Yes,
Yep.
Nik Mohanlal (28:16)
The benefit of LinkedIn so far I've seen, and you can see from the posts nowadays as well, is the fact that because you have these types of connections, an L1 analyst can directly connect with a director of some sort. It's vague example, but that type of connection allows them to communicate with them quicker than having to go through separate channels or whatnot.
Chris Prince (28:31)
Absolutely.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Nik Mohanlal (28:43)
Whether or not something comes of that is not the issue. That direct connection is what people are seeing LinkedIn's value for. And if I'm sharing my knowledge on LinkedIn, if I'm sharing blogs and things, someone will see it. Someone will see the fact that I wrote a blog post about how to...
Chris Prince (28:45)
is the end.
yet.
You put in the effort. I think the effort
matters and that is where, like you mentioned, to directly connect to a senior level executive it takes effort. And so with LinkedIn, I believe it's become a showcase for your effort and the effort that each individual, each professional puts into either their craft or...
their networking but it all boils down to the effort and where you're really driving your effort I'm pretty sure like on my LinkedIn I've probably connected with a bunch of CSOs as well but I actually haven't messaged a single one of them and that's due to lack of effort right and I think also not only a lack of effort for many of the the newer people that are entering
Nik Mohanlal (29:38)
Mm, yeah.
Chris Prince (29:48)
you know, their careers, their professional careers, right, fresh graduates. They are also trying to come to terms with, you know, how to use LinkedIn more effectively. And I think that's whole topic for another day. Because LinkedIn, LinkedIn is as deep as an ocean. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (30:00)
Man, yeah.
It's insane.
That's definitely something I'm trying to try to build as well on LinkedIn is that, you've got to build a brand now. A lot of these cyber guys are pushing this and it is working for a lot of folks.
Chris Prince (30:12)
You got self branding?
It
is working because it's kind of what lets you stand out from the rest. To have that spotlight on you is critical. And not only on an individual level, I'm going to connect this back to what I mean in terms of the value of our teams. Cyber security teams require that spotlight on them as well.
Nik Mohanlal (30:36)
Yeah, look at Microsoft and Google, right? Microsoft Dart, or D-A-R-T. They have a reputation, right?
Chris Prince (30:36)
It is important.
Yeah, D-A-R-T-A. Yep.
they you know start out in terms of Showing their value and the efforts that they're putting in in terms of how they're contributing to to the industry, you know Yes That they're a fact, yeah, yeah,
Nik Mohanlal (30:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
It makes people want to join, not just ignore the fact that it's Google or Microsoft,
it's more than just a team. They have a reputation of how they work. They know what they're doing. They have this standard of work quality and expectation. That's a kind of a goal.
Chris Prince (31:08)
of, yeah, exactly, exactly. And
I think this is something that we can imbue in our cybersecurity organizations and our teams and our people is just, you know, an added conscious effort into branding, into, you know, saying that this is who we are, this is what we do, and, you know, yeah, I think that has value.
Nik Mohanlal (31:33)
Yeah.
I'm gonna start seeing you post on LinkedIn now. Right?
Chris Prince (31:38)
Yo, I've been
thinking about it for years at this point. And I have the issue with me, right Nick, is it's just a matter of consistency, And I have these grand ideas in terms of, okay, how I wanna approach it, how we can execute it. And if I could direct someone to doing this, I'm pretty sure they'd be super successful.
Nik Mohanlal (31:42)
Dude.
Yeah.
Chris Prince (32:01)
But me doing it for myself, I seem to hit a roadblock there and I'm still trying to figure it out. Like I'm slowly deciphering it and trying to figure out, you know, how I can better myself. Because again, a lot up here, but not so much that I'm really putting into action. And there's a disconnect there, dude. Yeah. It's true. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (32:17)
Yeah, you and me, you and me and one of the same, man, honestly. It's a tough thing. It's very
tough. And I think having those systems in place will help. And so, yeah, once you see me post, I'll start seeing you post. It'll be a collaborative effort.
Chris Prince (32:27)
Absolutely.
You've already inspired me. I think
I've gone through your blog post. One or two of them, I forgot the title, but I remember I spent one whole night just scrolling through your blog post. was like, yo, this is very nice, dude. Very nice to see the effort. The content's wonderful. I can see the effort in terms of what you're doing and what you're trying to do. And I think, like I said, that
Nik Mohanlal (32:38)
thanks.
Nice. Cheers,
Chris Prince (33:01)
eventually demands a lot of respect, a lot of recognition. And you can see that on LinkedIn as well, wherein you put in the right efforts and direct the efforts the right way into certain posts, into certain discussions that you ignite, and there is recognition in that, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (33:20)
Yeah man, definitely. I want to pivot a little bit away from cyber right now. I'll talk to you about now, Chris, as we mentioned earlier, Cyber is a very passion-driven path for a lot of people. It's also a monetary path, you know.
Chris Prince (33:24)
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (33:36)
They see TikTok videos, they see YouTube videos, they can make this much money doing this, that, and there. And that drives people to start, you know? And you clearly demonstrated at the start that you had a calling, you had an inkling at uni. You started Comp Sci and you said, screw that, I want to go into cyber, this is cool. I want the word threat analyst in my title. I want to be instant response. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Prince (33:40)
Yep.
Right, yeah, yeah. It's the curiosity that drives us.
That's honestly what I believe more so than, you know, passion driving people into this industry is the curiosity. And, it's how you not only sustain that curiosity through the years of your career, but develop that and increase that. That's what really drives the success of an individual or professional in this industry.
is my honest opinion. Curiosity is like the driving force, the engine of your vehicle in this industry. The second your curiosity dies out and you're like, you know, I've learned enough, I know enough, you know, the chip on your shoulder, that's it, man. That's the downfall right there.
Nik Mohanlal (34:27)
Mm. Yeah. So...
Yeah.
So curiosity is
often quite, it's either you cultivate it or it's baked into you, right? And either way, it's not just for a particular path. It's not I have to be curious for cyber. Like this is a skill set. It's a human trait. you'll often see that come out in other habits, right? Or other things you do in your life. What other things are you curious about? You when it comes to
Chris Prince (34:47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right, right,
this.
Nik Mohanlal (35:08)
outside of cyber? What drives you to learn something new because you're curious about it? What is that thing for you?
Chris Prince (35:16)
For me, if there was something that interested me, I would try to dig in deeper with no second questions, no inhibitions, no second thoughts to it.
this is what has driven me throughout my life and continues to drive me. Let's say, and recently I've gotten into nutrition and healthy eating habits. I've been trying to take a deeper look into eating healthier and being a little more mindful about my overall health. And I dug deep. I went in as deep as I could. I learned about intermittent fasting.
about different diets, what they do, the whole idea of what macros are, micros are, and you know, it's not gonna make me money, to put it simply, I'm not earning from the knowledge I'm gaining over here. And I think that is what defines curiosity, is you don't have to get paid to learn it. If you're learning it for the sake of learning it, for the sake of your own interest, that's good enough.
If you have that innate nature within you, or you develop that, which I've seen a lot of individuals capable of doing that too, that's just as good. Yeah. I'm glad. Yes, absolutely.
Nik Mohanlal (36:36)
Yeah, damn, man, you're getting me inspired now, Cultivating it is hard. It is hard because it
takes a little level of effort to think, should I do this? Because it'll always happen. Why should I go down this path of learning about how to build an Arduino board to do this one thing? It's less about what it means to you. But if you're in that position of
Chris Prince (36:46)
Yes. Bye.
Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (37:03)
what to do next, you simply just go, our advice is just go head first into something.
Chris Prince (37:04)
Right. Go
in the beginning is important. Like you mentioned, why am I doing this? What is the purpose? What's really driving me to want to do more? Right. And I truly believe, you can't force people to do anything. It has to come from within them. And then only, you know, it's going to be something fruitful.
Nik Mohanlal (37:15)
Mmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris Prince (37:27)
Otherwise it's just a half-baked, effort, right? And so, is one of those things that's developed within themselves. it's not some... Sure, you can inspire others, but you can't make people curious. That's something... They become curious based on what they see, what they hear, what they feel. And again, I don't have it figured out yet.
Nik Mohanlal (37:30)
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah
Chris Prince (37:55)
I'm still trying to work it out myself, but I've truly found that the individuals that are most curious they're the ones that tend to see good growth in this industry.
Nik Mohanlal (37:56)
Of course, of course.
Yeah, that's, I personally have had that kind of experience as well. You know, I, even though I had this initial drive to study cyber, when I was studying it, it was tough. It was really tough for me because I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do, or do I want to go down red teaming? Do I to be a pen tester? Or do I want to be a SOC analyst? Because this is the way you should start. This is what everyone says, right?
Chris Prince (38:20)
You're both stuck.
many gaps.
That's the right,
yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (38:34)
And
so somehow I ended up as a content engineer at Immersive Labs, making labs, which was great, right? It was a fantastic experience and the people I worked with and managers as well, they really supported the growth of the team to the level that it provided insight for me, right? Me as trying to develop what I wanted to do. I only had that experience and my university degree.
Chris Prince (38:39)
That's amazing dude, yeah. Yo.
sense
Nik Mohanlal (39:00)
And I had always asked questions like, what do you next? So what should I do? Should I go back and do hack the box or should I do try hack me? So I tried them. I went, OK, let me try these things. Let me spend a couple of months doing some hack the box machines. And it just didn't click. I just couldn't get on board with it. And then I did a little bit of malware analysis one day. My colleague at the time, Ben McCarthy, who's a absolute reverse engineer wizard.
Chris Prince (39:09)
Yep. Try it again.
See how they feel.
Wow.
Nik Mohanlal (39:29)
He like bleeds windows, honestly. He gave me a bit of a lowdown on like what to do when you have like a malicious executable, what to do, what to look for when you're in DNS spy. It was so overwhelming, but it's so exciting. So let me jump into this. That kind of fueled the drive to get a job as a SOC analyst because
that curiosity of, know what, this is kind of my thing. You know, let me, let me drive, let me follow that path. And so I did, I became an L1. I went on to becoming an L2, did some customer stuff. And then through that, I pivoted back into, into cyber education. And, and I got to the point where I'm like, you know what,
Chris Prince (40:05)
issue.
Nik Mohanlal (40:11)
what else can I do? Because I'm also a musician, right? So that's why I thought about this podcast. I thought I talked to a lot of people. Everyone has all these unique stories. I like sharing stories with people. And so I want showcase that, you know, then that's how I kind of through that I learned. Yeah. Thank you, Ben.
Chris Prince (40:12)
That's it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Again, amazing effort from your end.
Like I've told you this before, there was a huge gap in this area where I think there's a shadow on the cyber security industry as a whole. With your efforts, with this podcast and with what you're doing, I think you're going to shine a nice ray of light through it. That's going to help multitudes of people.
Nik Mohanlal (40:50)
Thank you man.
Chris Prince (40:55)
the pivot, you know, from, you know, dealing with immersive labs and, you know, being into content creation all the way into SOC analysis and then into the cyber educator field that you're in right now. I think that's amazing, dude. And, you know, kudos on the pivots. Yeah, because for me on my end, my personal experience has been, yeah, I got into SOC.
Nik Mohanlal (41:14)
Appreciate it, it was tough, it tough work.
Chris Prince (41:22)
analysis because that was the opportunity in the market at the time you know when I was looking out for a job and you know they said yeah we need SOC analysts but most of my education revolved around digital forensics like I played around with the tools and you know learned you know what what a chain of custody is what are the legal implications of not having a chain of custody you know
Nik Mohanlal (41:36)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Prince (41:46)
how to perform as an expert witness. These are things I learned during the course of my education, but unfortunately I was never able to really put it into practice. Because the need at the time was, from an employer perspective, is they needed SOC analysts. They didn't care about anything else. And on my end, I needed a job. I didn't care about anything else.
Nik Mohanlal (41:55)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Chris Prince (42:09)
And so,
know, we kind of shook hands on that and I started my career as a SOC analyst and I've enjoyed it. It's come with its own set of challenges and, you know, a lot of learning throughout. And, you know, the exposure in terms of the tools, in terms of the situations, dealing with clients, you know, whether they were happy at times and unhappy most of the time.
you know managing them really helped me hone some of those soft skills that we spoke about communication skills that are required and Yeah a part of me also is looking looking forward to trying to pivot into different areas because cyber security again as you know is it's filled with so many different types of rules, a person would be fortunate to be able to experience
a variety of I think. Honestly, I want to move more into the business side of cybersecurity, So that would require me, firstly, to get a more comprehensive look at how cybersecurity is being conducted as a business, not only in UAE, but just globally.
Nik Mohanlal (43:00)
What is one of those things you're trying to do?
Chris Prince (43:20)
Actually 2025 has been a journey more in terms of where I focused more on my health. But in the long run, my aim is to move more into the decision making seat of cyber security within our businesses. So I'm just trying to figure out my own way eventually. We will see where that leads.
Nik Mohanlal (43:43)
Nice
man. Chris, you said you're a gamer.
What are you playing right now?
Chris Prince (43:48)
my go-to for more than decade has been League of Legends. It's a MOBA, RTS MOBA. It's, yeah, it's kind of like Dota. Dota is even more popular. Dota, Dota 2, yeah. So along the likes of that, I got hooked in, I think, hooked into it the final year of high school.
Nik Mohanlal (43:59)
yeah.
Chris Prince (44:08)
Prior to that, I was hardcore into a lot of FPS like Call of Duty, Counter-Strike. Counter-Strike's been evergreen for me dude. I got into Counter-Strike when I was like in third grade. I was like maybe seven, seven or eight years old and got onto a PC and then you know, and I had no clue what LAN was and then I knew I knew I had to click this, join a custom game and you know.
Nik Mohanlal (44:08)
Yeah.
man. yeah. yeah.
Chris Prince (44:34)
person had already hosted a server and all of that Click click and start shooting some heads dude. It was fun
Nik Mohanlal (44:40)
Dude, was, yeah, I miss those FPS days.
it showcases like Modern Warfare 2 videos, like old guy, like smooth 360-degree scopes and all that. I miss that game so much. I put too many hours into it. When I moved to UAE for college,
Chris Prince (44:47)
Gotcha, the no-skills 360 no-skills 360. Yo, for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Nik Mohanlal (44:59)
I had IT classes and we had this huge IT room with like, I think there was about 47 machines back to back. it was like, they called it, it was like a two room thing. So it was like two rooms. And this is, no one knew about cyber. No one was doing any hacking or anything like that. So there was a shared file server for the network, for the entire school on there, right?
Chris Prince (45:09)
Great.
Day.
Great. Yeah.
school network.
Nik Mohanlal (45:28)
It's running Windows or something like that. someone discovered this is how it operates. So someone had the CS2 executable file. So they just put it on the shared server. And then we had a two-hour lesson. And so we were all just getting bored. They're telling us about how to use Java and use Visual Basic and all that stuff.
Chris Prince (45:34)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah... Yeah...
Nik Mohanlal (45:54)
So some guy just, I'm like, oh, this guy's playing Counter-Strike in the lab. And I'm like, how the fuck are you doing this? What the hell? And so I do it. And then that triggers a chain. Every single machine in that room was running Counter-Strike for at least an hour and a half. It was fantastic. And this is like my first LAN party experience with everyone. It was chaos. It was awesome.
Chris Prince (45:57)
that yeah how is he doing that yeah triggers a chain reaction and everybody's doing
Yeah. wonderful, wonderful
Yeah. 2012, same scenario. Computer Science Lab. I was doing the same thing, dude. I think for us it It was just a bunch of kids with USBs. So they just come for the Computer Science Lab and it'd be like a two hour lab.
pop in the USB. they did put in Counter-Strike 1.6, I think was the one. And one guy would host a server, everybody else would join in because they were all on the same network. And that's it. LAN parties non-stop. And the teachers caught us eventually because everybody is glued into this screen. And she's like, you know, I'm not that interesting. Why are they looking at their screens?
Nik Mohanlal (46:50)
Yeah, yeah, Dude, that's crazy.
course, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
games aren't as good anymore.
Chris Prince (47:07)
Hmm, no, no,
it's been tougher and tougher for me to find multiplayer games. In terms of single player games, I've actually gotten into a lot of like card based and turn based games. So the nature of the games I've playing have also kind of evolved as I've grown up. And so initially it was a lot of, you know, action, FPS, know, beat ups and fighting games. And then in between it was racers and I got really into cars and...
Nik Mohanlal (47:22)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Nice.
Nice.
Chris Prince (47:34)
stuff and then it was fantasy you know with League of Legends, Dota and now it's kind of like a mix of it all but the nature of how we're playing the game kind of changes for me the very act of playing games has been instrumental in developing who I am
Nik Mohanlal (47:40)
Mmm.
Chris Prince (47:51)
it's worked wonders for me. Gaming has taught me a lot about focus.
like the earliest memory I have is you know it was like the PS1 and I was getting ready for school and I'd be gaming and my mom would be feeding me food like breakfast because I'd have my uniform on ready and I just the only thing on my mind was gaming and yeah it was you know nostalgia that I had
Nik Mohanlal (48:02)
nice.
You
Nah.
Chris Prince (48:15)
And I think everybody, know, for me it was gaming, everybody has some activity or something that they've been doing their entire lives that really translates well into the work that they're doing. And, and yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (48:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, it's the same. It
actually the opposite way around. when I got better at cybersecurity and the work that I do, whether it's communicating with trainees, explaining concepts, difficult concepts in more digestible manner.
not just trainees, but like managers, directors, having these, you know, presentation meetings, I have to be concise. That translated really well in my music life when I came to like jamming with other musicians or conveying my thoughts clearly, you know, I can't just be like, hey, make that bass tone a bit more strongly. Like no one's going to understand that,
Chris Prince (48:50)
Right.
the expectation.
Right.
Nik Mohanlal (49:06)
and doing my work helped translate it nicely into my music.
Chris Prince (49:10)
have to, yeah,
yeah, absolutely. So I think, yeah, everybody has that, everybody has some skill or the other that they've developed or honed in some way or the other that may seem unrelated, but they're all interconnected. And it's all about making those connections and transferring those skills from one particular purpose and where you've used it within one context and recontextualizing.
the activity or the skill.
Nik Mohanlal (49:41)
Nice man, nice. I
I have one more question for you, Chris. Do you have anything you wanna showcase? Any ideas, any blogs, any businesses, releases, code, or just you wanna scream at me a little bit before we sign things off?
Chris Prince (50:01)
I don't really have too much yet, a lot to showcase in the sense that a lot of things that are interesting, I recently, and again, most of my life either revolves around family or gaming or my work and now health has become a priority recently.
Yeah, there's just been a lot and you know, I'd love to go on and on talking about this. It's been super fun, honestly, Nick. But yeah, the one thing I'd like to say is props to you, Nick. It's been amazing. know, the conversations we've had have always been wonderful. I feel like, you know, I've left the conversation very satisfied. You're a great listener. You're a great conversationalist. you know, we...
Nik Mohanlal (50:48)
Thank you, man.
Chris Prince (50:52)
We've always had a good time with our discussion. I truly appreciate that.
Nik Mohanlal (50:54)
Yeah, Honestly,
yeah, I'm always excited talking to you. You have so much value to bring. it's a nice chat as well. And you just don't get that these days. I'm glad you're saying that. I appreciate it, man. It means a lot.
thank you so much for joining. You've been absolutely an amazing, amazing, amazing guest for the show.
Chris Prince (51:09)
great, great. Yeah, no. It's been my pleasure, It's been my pleasure. I love it.
Nikhil Mohanlal (51:16)
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of SciBytes. I really hope you enjoyed it.
If you want to reach out, talk about Cyber, talk sharp, or if you just want to drop me some feedback, you can do so via LinkedIn. You can find my details in the show notes.
Thanks.