Nikhil Mohanlal (00:00)
Hello and welcome back my fellow nerds to another episode of CyBytes. the podcast where I bring you real conversations with actual people working in cybersecurity here in UAE.
The goal is really minimize the barrier of entry for a lot of people trying to get into this scene and also get the guests to share the good, the bad and the ugly of the industry. I'm really tired of the corporate yap. Today's guest is Bhavika Ketani, a cybersecurity lecturer at Curtin University.
You know, I've been really keen to interview an educator in this field because it's very much in line with my role as a technical instructor. We get into a little bit about the impact of teaching and mentoring in cyber,
you're trying to find a new job, especially as a new joiner. And why teaching was her calling instead of pen testing? Enjoy.
Nikhil Mohanlal (00:52)
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Nik Mohanlal (01:35)
Cool, there we go. So again, very, very chill. I don't want to make it very official and I want to get rid of all the chaos, all the corporate crap that we're used to. So, Bhavika thank you so much for joining this podcast. Again, ⁓ you're one of the smoother guests I've been trying to book in. ⁓
Bhavika (01:36)
minutes.
Yes.
Nik Mohanlal (02:00)
But ⁓ yeah, so as I don't know if you know much, if you did much research on what I'm all about or what CyBytes is all about, but this podcast is really just to talk to many professionals in this space, especially in this region, and really demystify this industry a little bit. ⁓ I felt that when I first came here and first came here and talked to lot of folks that there's a lot of like disparity between especially new joiners and the current kind of
scene community if you will and only took me talking to the specific community to realize that these kind of people are just humans and they're not chaos that they're not. Giants as we might see them or my put them on a pedestal ⁓ so this is why i wanted to get you on because you're a lecturer you're currently lecturing at the Curtin University right ⁓ and you know i i studied cyber security myself and it was.
Bhavika (02:50)
Curtin University.
Nik Mohanlal (02:56)
imperative to have a really good lecturer. And so this is what I wanted to get you on to really showcase your experience and showcase your expertise and your kind of perspective on the industry here as well. So thank you again for joining, please do take it away.
Bhavika (03:07)
Thank you so much for having me, Nick.
Yeah. Thank you so much, Nick.
Nik Mohanlal (03:15)
so I mean tell us a little bit about about being a lecturer at Curtin and what it's all about and your background in this journey.
Bhavika (03:19)
⁓
Okay, let's get back to ⁓ where I got my interest in being into IT. Firstly, it was ⁓ grade 11, grade 12. I took informatics and ⁓ you know, again, the lecturer played a great part in
peaking my interest in the IT. She taught me how to code, how to design a database and that's where I thought that okay this is something that interests me. I could create projects out of it, something that would be useful out there when I graduate and that's when I took a bachelor's in IT ⁓ in my university. So I learned from the basics to the advanced. did multiple projects and ⁓ if you may ask what
peak my interest in teaching is, when I studied my bachelor's, my exams were mostly conceptual based, right? So it was nothing sort of memorizing what we did in our schools, Typical schools like CBSE and all of those. ⁓ So it was more of conceptual based. And again, to understand them, the concepts in to depth, I would go and hit YouTube, right? To know exactly.
Nik Mohanlal (04:12)
Mm.
Bhavika (04:31)
the whys and the hows how everything works, watch tons and tons of videos and finally understand that concept. Now, to understand that better,
I would go to my friends and explain it to them, right? Just so that I know that I am understanding. And ⁓ to my surprise, a friend really told me that, you know, if you were my teacher, I would have literally topped the class on you actually explained better than, you know, what we what's being taught in the university. So this was the first time that I thought that, maybe teaching is something that I would actually enjoy. I mean,
the acknowledgement or the satisfaction of someone actually understanding what you're explaining is what again interested me through ⁓ you know starting my teaching journey. So this is all about my teaching journey. I'm currently working at Curtin University and I teach most of the cyber security units there.
Nik Mohanlal (05:26)
that's really
a good point actually you bring up about teaching because I had no idea that I like doing that either because I come from a cyber education background myself and I've created content for large training platforms and I currently work at a cyber training platform company except I'm a trainer and this was my first experience actually teaching stuff, mentoring, actually getting involved with supporting the growth of someone's professional landscape.
And there are these moments that come up and I'm teaching something about PowerShell or a very cool technique that a particular threat actor is using. They're like, ⁓ I get it. And that for me, that really like ticks a box, you know? So I totally get it. ⁓ But what was it about kind of training that really did peak in that sense? Like, have you always been centered around training yourself? Did you ever find yourself thinking, you know, at a young age, you're like, you want to go into this or is it just something that kind of happened?
Bhavika (06:24)
so this is something that came to me honestly because I firstly worked in the industry. I worked as a pen tester where again I worked on multiple projects clients and something that came through my way was ⁓ when I got an offer to being a teaching assistant, right? So it was not even a lecturer, not even an assistant lecturer. It was a teaching assistant.
And it was ⁓ COVID at that time and I thought, okay, maybe, you know, since the jobs weren't very stable at that time, I was like, let me go through this and I'll take this opportunity up. ⁓ As soon as I took this, I, you know, again, went into explaining the basic of the concepts to the advanced and again, the acknowledgement of the students understanding is what made me stay motivated throughout this.
Nik Mohanlal (07:11)
why didn't you decide to continue with like pen testing, let's say, because I pen testing is a rather sought after position, especially in this region. You know, I know there's many people who are, get messages all the time saying, do you give me recommendations for pen testing jobs? I'm like, I would if I could. But ⁓ what was it that said that, you know, that made you move away from pen testing? Because again, it's a very sought after position. It's tough to get into a role like that.
Bhavika (07:19)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. So I feel in the UAE that ⁓ there are many pen testers or many professionals who have those skills, but very less of them to teach them to the students, especially for our future generation. So I wanted to be that who paves the way for the students to get jobs in the UAE, especially.
Nik Mohanlal (07:39)
Mm-mm.
Nice, nice, yeah. I really resonate with that because my journey was a little bit similar in the sense that I did, I was an L1 analyst, I moved up to an L2 and then I eventually found myself back in cyber education. And it's that same gratification of like teaching someone something where they understand it or they don't get it. ⁓ And then they finally get it after a little while or a little bit of help and mentoring because that's something I needed. And I think that is...
that is a bit of a superpower, especially in universities and lecturers that you guys have, is that very few people tend to see that, So what are some of the ⁓ elements of lecturing or teaching that you think more people should understand? It's a very,
It's a very, ⁓ I guess, well-known position, but in your perspective, especially in cyber in this region, what was something that you want people to know more about?
Bhavika (08:53)
when I started working as ⁓ an educator as a teacher, it was during the COVID time, right? At that time, worked with an institute to create and run ⁓ an online ethical hacking workshop. And it was for kids aged 18 to 13, So imagine teaching hacking to these
Nik Mohanlal (08:58)
Mm-hmm.
Bhavika (09:15)
younger students who has probably started learning how to use computers. So the challenge was I had to teach them from zero. It was not just learning about how tools work or how to create a hacking mindset, but also to create foundations, right? Basics such as what an IP address is or how networks work, what's an OSI model, all those things. why I was, I mean, I could have started just teaching them the tools and
Nik Mohanlal (09:20)
He
Bhavika (09:41)
just tell them how to use it and then get an output and just then think what to do about it. But again, it's how you understand how something first works and then move your way towards it is what I as a teacher learned my way through teaching as well. So it's not just about the advanced stuffs, but it's about ⁓ teaching the students and making their foundations very strong so that they can pave their way through, you know.
hacking journey on their own.
Nik Mohanlal (10:11)
I totally agree. It's ⁓ the same sort of point of like, why would I hire a personal trainer? There are some people who are very strong and very capable of achieving their fitness goals, but then they might hit a roadblock and this is where the trainer tends to come in and be like, hey, look, let me push you in the right direction. Let me guide you. Let me give you the correct method to do this sort of thing.
Bhavika (10:31)
Yeah, exactly.
Nik Mohanlal (10:37)
I think very few people tend to see that, especially with cybersecurity, or rather, it doesn't exist here. And it's tough to find those types of gigs. And so again, I really do respect that position that you're in because ⁓ you do get to influence a lot more people than we think. ⁓ That's really cool, actually. ⁓ So with, I want to kind of pivot more into UAE now. ⁓
Bhavika (10:40)
Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (11:03)
In your eyes and your experience, what are some of the changes in this industry that you've noticed, especially in this region?
Bhavika (11:12)
So what I've seen is, again, there's a lot of demand that's coming up for cybersecurity related roles, but the people who are actually skilled with it are lesser. So in my opinion, that people who are studying cybersecurity cannot just get a job by getting a bachelor's degree in cybersecurity. And I feel that is the same case in any of the IT jobs there. I feel that they should have a learning mindset to ⁓
start learning on their own, get certifications way ahead of even graduating and probably participate in CTFs So this is what I feel that students must do before graduating to get an edge over getting a beginner's role at least.
Nik Mohanlal (11:58)
for sure. was going to say like it's way more than just a bachelor's degree, right? ⁓ Would you argue that there no requirement for a bachelor's degree anymore? Because there are a lot of companies out there that don't really look, that they don't look beyond the education. They look purely just on experience,
Bhavika (12:03)
Yeah.
I totally agree, right? Because I think mainly in cybersecurity, I have heard that they hire someone who is still studying in high school or, because they just look at ⁓ the learning initiative from the students itself and again, how much they're willing to learn and how much they're willing to contribute. So it does not matter the age or the level of education they have in this industry. It's just how much they participate in what they want to do.
Nik Mohanlal (12:42)
I think that's a really important thing to encourage, especially as educators and trainers, is to say, look, you have to go beyond what your curriculum says, In spite of what the job is telling you to do, you have to encourage them on and really do more than that. And so what, in your perspective, what kind of things should students do to go beyond the curriculum and to go beyond just the regular courseworks and things like that so that
Bhavika (12:55)
Thank you.
Nik Mohanlal (13:08)
they go through the course and they increase their chances of finding a job or even getting interviews.
Bhavika (13:13)
Yeah.
So one thing that students must know is that they will learn only so much in the 12 weeks of a trimester that they have, So again, that mindset should change that they learn everything or they'll gain all the skills that are required to get a job after the graduate. Second is invest every single day in a few hours, at least researching about what's trending or, ⁓ you know, or get
learn towards getting a certification, right? Again, that will give them an edge over getting a job. And third thing is networking, There are many multiple conferences, for example, GISEC that happens every year. So I encourage my students, in fact, I take them along with me to network with companies, attend really good workshops, even I attend most of them. network as much as possible. You might as well, you know, meet someone who lands in your dream job there.
Nik Mohanlal (14:07)
No, of course. Yeah, that's a tough thing to network, especially for us techies. We spend most of our time behind a screen and inside of a hoodie. ⁓ it's especially if you're trying to get a job. It's again, this is very specific to this region. This region is built upon networking. know, wasta being thrown around like left, right and center, we want to get on top of that. so networking plays a huge role in really stepping out your comfort zone and being able to
Bhavika (14:07)
So that's my perspective, yeah.
It's important.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Nik Mohanlal (14:36)
Convey your thoughts, convey your methodologies, your thinking, your opinions, and building a bit of a circle with your course mates. I wish I had done that sooner at university. at the time it was a bit difficult, but I wish I had done that sooner because that would have built my confidence up going out to be able to talk to people, being able to...
Bhavika (14:48)
Yeah.
Thank
Nik Mohanlal (14:59)
you know, go to networking events and be like, hey, this is who I am. This is what I do. This is what I want to do. ⁓ cause now I'm getting, I'm getting those messages on LinkedIn all the time. Now, what can I do to find a job? And I'll tell them, this is what you got to do. You got to be concise. You got to be intentional and you know, talk to people. ⁓ and again, doing that at university is the best way to do it because you're surrounded by your colleagues. You're surrounded by lecturers like yourself who are, it's literally your goal to, get them beyond that finish line. ⁓
Bhavika (15:04)
Exactly.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank
Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Nik Mohanlal (15:30)
What would you say UAE needs more of ⁓ in terms of kind of harboring ⁓ students to learn more? Because I feel like there isn't, it doesn't really exist or communities don't really exist here and I'd like to see more of that.
Bhavika (15:38)
you
So what we as a university or me as a lecturer is trying to do more here is trying to bridge the gap between academia and industry, So what we're trying to do here is we're trying to bring in industry speakers, we're trying to bring in people from the industry and talk about their journey, their experience, first hand experience of, you know, what should be done when you're assigned as let's say a SOC analyst, right? What would
a day like a SOC analyst or a day as a VAPT would look like. So we're trying to bring in that and I feel this is something that should be done more often and that could be done in any of the industries not just it's not only specific to cyber security but students need to know or have some sort of experience not just through internships but through experiences from people who are actually working in the industry. So this is what I believe should be done more in the UAE.
Nik Mohanlal (16:42)
this is how CyBytes became a thing, I've been following some of the Curtin posts on LinkedIn, you you're getting all these pros come in, showcasing their stories. I thought this is exactly what I want to do. And it's just that because I fully, fully agree with you because there's not enough people who understand what it takes or what's actually involved in these roles, you'll learn about what a security analyst does on a YouTube video because that YouTuber is getting paid to tell you.
Bhavika (16:49)
Yeah.
Exactly,
Nik Mohanlal (17:07)
And
Bhavika (17:07)
exactly, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (17:09)
they may have insights, their insights are different to their region or specific to their region maybe. In UAE, it's very different. The technology might not be up to speed. Maybe the processes might not be up to speed. And the work culture here is very different to other countries too. And so it's very important, the thing that you're doing, showcasing this to the students. ⁓ And part of which is
Bhavika (17:31)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (17:36)
showcasing the negative experiences as well, right? It's not all tax-free haven and great salaries and whatnot.
Bhavika (17:39)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
So when I spoke about students, I mean, there were students who were so interested in being a pen tester. And the second I told them that half of the time would go in creating reports, ⁓ that's when they were like, OK, this is let me just think about it, you know. So again, there is always ⁓ the grass is greener on the other side every time you look at any of the job roles. Right. So there was one instance where again, we also teach, ⁓ you know,
Nik Mohanlal (17:58)
Hahaha
Bhavika (18:12)
some of the basics of auditing, right? So IT auditing, ISO policies, how to implement them, create them, all of those things. Again, students would not learn as much as they do in class if they don't hear the experience from an industry expert, right? So we had someone who was an IT auditor come and talk about his day as an IT auditor, how they go audit their checklists, all of those things. So I think again, that
must be implemented in most of the universities
Nik Mohanlal (18:43)
Of course, yeah, it's a really tough thing for universities to balance as well because there's a curriculum that has to be built and followed but you still want to showcase the truth, if you will, to the students. They need to know what to expect and doing what you're doing is key. Having these people come in, showcase their stories because otherwise the students have to go find it themselves on Reddit or YouTube and sometimes it might not be accurate. So that's really, good.
Bhavika (18:50)
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly, yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (19:13)
How about for yourself? As a lecturer, it's an interview I really wanted to have because, ⁓ again, there's many, many aspects of being a lecturer and being a trainer, and one of which is the positive side, which is imparting knowledge and seeing that growth in someone. But what are some of the tougher aspects of it that people don't tend to see?
Bhavika (19:36)
Okay, so like one thing is teaching but the second thing is our we'll take all our efforts to teach whatever it takes but again the half of it must come from the students and sometimes they do not do that the initiative does not come from the students to go above and beyond the curriculum and learn something of their own so I think that is a challenge that comes from us again.
even when I was a student, right, we would only pay attention to marks. We would go back and go back to the lecture and say, okay, you know, this is the one mark that I need here. But what I believe is that one mark will not change the knowledge that you have gained, right? So this is what I try to make my students understand that. Okay, let's say you gain your one mark here or you get a distinction with that one mark, right? It will not make a difference if you do not go and communicate well to.
the interviewer about what you've learned.
Nik Mohanlal (20:29)
how would you then try to cultivate that inspiration or that motivation? And because this is something I deal with quite frequently as well as is the engagement of my trainees. You know, I have a curriculum, I teach, you know, incident response and I teach, you know, particular methods and techniques for incident response. And, you know, I, what I look for in my sessions is chaos. I look for discourse. I look for discussions and arguments.
Bhavika (20:30)
you
Nik Mohanlal (20:55)
but that can only happen when they show up, right? And many other factors go into them not showing up, but it'd be way more difficult as a lecturer, because you're dealing with way more than just five trainees or six trainees, you're dealing with 50, 60, maybe even 100. And imparting that inspiration is really tough, especially when their goal is just to get that distinction or just to get that grade. So what kind of things would you do or you and your team, what would you do to try and make them look beyond just the grades?
Bhavika (21:25)
so any of my classes that I take the first thing that I tell them that this course is not about class only and only if you're interested in cybersecurity is You know that you should be here or else you can not attend my classes. That's fine And whenever I take classes it has to be a one-on-one session or it has to be engaging It's because I cannot just be there and talking right?
it is someone who is not me. I need someone who constantly engages and I ensure that I engage my class really well. So again, all my classes are based on discussions. We explain or we understand a certain topic and then I would probably divide them in groups. I would ask them to come and present or ⁓ all those things, right? So there is some sort of engagement activity that is happening. And ⁓ in fact, I always...
almost conduct Kahoot quizzes, right? So I always have like a little small little treats for them at the end. So I know that at least that will keep them motivated to stay throughout my class. So at the end of every session, I have Kahoot to summarize everything that we have learned. So that's how I keep them engaged. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (22:35)
Nice. Yeah, that's really cool, actually, because
that also aligns with and I think if any of your students do listen to this podcast or are listening now, you know, this isn't just because it's a university. This isn't just an activity that's being given to you because it's your coursework. It's, you know, being able to convey your thoughts and being able to present and talk clearly and have appropriate discussions, professional discussions.
Bhavika (23:02)
Exactly. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (23:02)
It's present in this industry. It's everyone
has this you're going to work with absolute losers at some point in your life and you cannot, you know, you cannot fight them in person. You cannot argue against them because they're a loser. They're a loser, but they may make a really good point. Having these discussions and making them clear to them is really, really important. ⁓ You know, I think one of the things I'd love to try and do is ⁓
Bhavika (23:09)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Nik Mohanlal (23:31)
have like lightning courses or lightning talks give the students or trainees a chance to ⁓ you know teach something to someone you know they got a they read a nice little article on APT 35 or something show it 15 minute talk you know and that really helps get get get my trainees out of a shell you know or put them on the spot and that's something i really i really really like to do and it's just something i wish i did i had actually
Bhavika (23:40)
Beach exactly, yeah.
you
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I
think putting them on the spot, just telling them, okay, you just have 15 minutes to prepare for the quick presentation, maybe form a group of two or three, come out there and present. And it not only builds their, okay, they have learned maybe a new topic, but it helps them come out and be a good presenter. And I feel in today's day and age, everyone must know how to present and put themselves out there really confidently. So this is what...
Nik Mohanlal (23:58)
Hahaha.
Yeah.
course.
Bhavika (24:22)
I
also ensure to teach them through my course.
Nik Mohanlal (24:24)
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
Because again, it's not this traditional job applications have gone out the window now. Like it's it's no longer, hey, let me go on LinkedIn jobs, which I will for sure forever hate. I will die on this hill saying that I hate that application because it lies to you and it doesn't do anything. ⁓ I may be biased, but because there's cases where it's like, you know, you'll see a really fantastic job.
Bhavika (24:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I agree.
Nik Mohanlal (24:50)
and it'll say, ⁓ this company's received 400 applicants in last two hours. there's been a case where a company actually comes out and says, actually, no, we've only received 75. I don't know why LinkedIn is boosting this number. So the LinkedIn Easy Apply doesn't do anything. I'm sure there are cases of people who have gotten jobs through that, but too many people rely on it. so traditional job applications are no longer a thing in my opinion. ⁓
Bhavika (25:00)
⁓ okay. Yeah.
Hmm.
Nik Mohanlal (25:18)
and I tend to really push the idea of ⁓ showcasing your work on LinkedIn, right? Getting on LinkedIn and ⁓ teaching something or showcasing some knowledge or even starting a blog or something, getting your online presence. Is that something that you teach your trainees or do you ever see someone ⁓ doing the same thing?
Bhavika (25:24)
I know I don't need it.
Thanks
⁓ Yeah, so I have my students, you know, again, I have encouraged them to post even the tiniest of the things while they're still graduating to put themselves out on the LinkedIn. Why? Because again, when they are out there looking for a job, they do not have any experience, they do not have any certifications, let's say it is the projects or let's say they have volunteered for a cybersecurity boot camp that I have, you know, conducted, they have volunteered for that anything around.
Nik Mohanlal (25:49)
Nice.
Bhavika (26:07)
⁓ their coursework, let's say, right, that they have learned, maybe they have completed or the things that they have learned, maybe they could put that up. again, putting yourself out there is I feel what nowadays people who hire also see, right? They look at your LinkedIn profile and see how active you are. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (26:26)
Yeah, it's a tough thing to do. It's a very, tough thing to overcome,
especially when we're so perpetually online, you know, seeing people put themselves out so much and you think about it yourself, you're like, I'd never do that. Or I'd never put myself out like that. There's a sense of like discouragement or even embarrassment that comes with it. But honest to God, I'll say this with like, you know, this is personal experience. It doesn't, it doesn't exist.
but like no one cares There's so many people that you really have
Bhavika (26:50)
no, no.
Nik Mohanlal (26:53)
to do this is how you kind of go above and beyond and You know, there's many people who can attest to this as well, you know And it helps you're right. It really really helps with with you know employers seeing your profile and whatnot so I want to pivot more now onto yourself
Bhavika (26:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
Nik Mohanlal (27:12)
as a trainer, as a person, You you may be a lecturer to students, but you're still a human being at the end of the day. With cybersecurity, there is a very traditional ⁓ mindset for people coming in. It's you have to do the CTF, you have to do this thing forever and ever and ever. And you have to have this deep and profound passion within yourself so that you succeed in the industry.
Was that ever something you did or did you kind of just fold upon it?
Bhavika (27:43)
I think this is something I fell upon. It is ⁓ something that came my way. Of course, I had a bit of an interest initially, like during my school times and university. But because this came to me, I started inclining or getting inclined more towards this industry.
Nik Mohanlal (28:02)
I'd like to really smash that perspective and that thinking because it's very old school. know, I think a lot of us don't want to work in tech as passionate as we all are in the things that we do. Cause I've come out and said, I don't like cyber security, you know, even though I'm a trainer, it's a very stupid opinion of mine.
Bhavika (28:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (28:24)
But it comes from the place of like, you know, I don't ever intend to stay in tech. know, it's my thing is to become a farmer. You know, I want to move away from screens. I just move away from tech completely. I'm tired of talking about server applications and the proper way to secure ⁓ this machine. I don't want to do that. I want to raise chickens and cows and goats. ⁓
Bhavika (28:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, well,
I mean, in today's day and age, is, there are a lot of opportunities, people just want to make money. And I think people find different ways to do that. Right. So it's not just being in tech or you must love your job, right. Or you must love cybersecurity in order to work in that. I mean, people are finding different ways or different, ⁓ you know, industries to work in different job roles.
Nik Mohanlal (29:12)
Yeah,
Nice. Is there anything that you're working on outside of ⁓ being a trainer?
Bhavika (29:15)
Thank you.
⁓ Yeah, so ⁓ I'm currently working towards my PhD. The topic is, thank you so much. The topic is AI-powered malware that evolves like a biological virus. ⁓ malware has always been a challenge, right? So again, with the evolution of AI and machine learning, malwares can now adapt to... ⁓
Nik Mohanlal (29:28)
congrats!
Bhavika (29:49)
adapt and change on its own to basically avoid any detections, right? So my research is about studying how this could happen and then creating strong defenses against it. And it's like being in a digital biology lab, creating defenses against it. And the second thing that we every year work towards is in our university, Curtin University, where I'm working is, we
have a cybersecurity bootcamp that we conduct every single year. It's basically to encourage high school students to come and have a look at the cybersecurity side of the education basically. So we have everything from the basics to the advanced and have a CTF competition at the end. So this is what I'm continuously working on towards where I create ⁓
the CTF competition machine every single year for my students. So yeah, this is what I'm working on currently. Yeah. Yeah. But again, lot of new things, especially when I create the machines. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (30:48)
Wow, CTF creations is tough. I know that firsthand. It's very, very intense. Nice.
course. Yeah, yeah, no, was the same for me. That's how I
when I was making labs and exercises I I learned so many new things. Like it was I got my hands on with volatility, you know, that was I preached that a lot. I love that tool so much. I got my hands on with volatility, I got good with Docker Kubernetes handling AWS machines, things like that, things I'd never done before I even heard of. And that really kind of
Bhavika (31:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank
Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (31:22)
transcended beyond just that role itself. So, as again, as a lecturer, what would be your advice for those outside of cybersecurity who want to get into cybersecurity?
Bhavika (31:36)
Okay, as in like in like school students wanting to get into or a non-techie wanting to get into a job.
Nik Mohanlal (31:43)
Both, A bit of both because
it's really, there are a lot of folks, right? There's a lot of school students, there's a lot of high school students that want to know where they want to go. And there's also a of folks who want to move from accounting or finance and they say, you know, cybersecurity looks really fun. I want to try that out.
Bhavika (31:49)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah,
I think anyone can get into cybersecurity if ⁓ they start learning about how the networks work. So start learning about the basics and then pave your way through your advanced. Start talking to people who are a part of the industry, see what is actually required and then ⁓ get your way ahead.
Nik Mohanlal (32:27)
one final question for you actually, this has kind of been burning for me. Do you have any previous students or current students that you'd want to showcase or even you kind of follow along and have been the kind of the success case for you, or successful case study for you, where you say, look, this student went to my course and he's not working at Dell or...
Microsoft or something, you know, like is there anyone that that that is like that? You don't have to say the name
Bhavika (32:53)
Yeah
Okay Well this student was ⁓ when I joined Curtin University he was already in his last year So I'll not say that I would take credit of everything that he's done
Of course, he had learned most of it from the previous lecturers. But again, he has started his own ⁓ cybersecurity ⁓ competitions and events and workshops company where he and his friends along with ⁓ Sharjah police and everything has, you know, he's evolved and created a very big thing. He's also received awards for it. So I'm very proud of him. And yeah, I'm proud to say that he was my student.
Nik Mohanlal (33:27)
Wow.
Bhavika (33:38)
when I joined him. He was last year. Yeah. Okay, we'll talk about it later. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
Nik Mohanlal (33:40)
Very cool, very cool. I think I know who you're on about. I think I've seen the name, but I'll do it off the record. Fair enough, fair enough. ⁓ Cool, amazing. ⁓
I guess finally to ask, is there anything you'd like to ⁓ plug or showcase or any other projects or anything you wanna talk about? Even you can talk about Curtin if you want.
Bhavika (34:02)
one thing about me as a lecturer, I wanted to say this. There's this saying that to teach is to learn twice, right? And I think I read that quote years back, but now that I think of it is when you start teaching someone is when you learn the most, I think teaching makes you learn the most. So not just once while teaching, but also when you go through your topics on your own.
you learn once and again, when you start teaching, learn twice. So think that's the best part about teaching is how you deepen your understanding about a certain topic. And ⁓ about Curtin University, again, it is ⁓ an Australian based university. It's located in academic city. That's where I go every day for my lectures. And ⁓ we have a bachelor's in cyber security. It's a three year course where you learn from the basics to the advanced, right? So we have pen testing, we learn how to
create malwares and how to do a secure source code. So we have a lot of things. So if anyone's interested, please hit me up.
Nik Mohanlal (35:07)
Nice. Bhavika, thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it. know, like I said, I was super excited to get you on and showcase your perspective. ⁓ And I think a lot more people need to learn about this, about the mentorship that's involved with cybersecurity and specifically in this region. now that there's a lot more focus in this region that they're trying to grow, becoming a more resilient as a country.
Bhavika (35:08)
yep.
Nik Mohanlal (35:30)
You know, it goes beyond just learning the sexy stuff of pen testing and defense and whatnot. You kind of have to look at the purpose ⁓ of your role within this region. ⁓ It's a nice conversation I had recently on one of my previous guests, ⁓ William Wright. He spoke about this briefly and ⁓ it was, yeah, that's something that really resonated with me. And this is why I think lecturers and trainers are really, important, especially in this field.
Bhavika (35:39)
you.
Yeah. ⁓
Nik Mohanlal (35:57)
We need that level of guidance, especially with the influx
of people coming in. again, know, fantastic work you're doing.
Bhavika (36:03)
Thank you so much Nik Thank you so much
for having me over. I really wanted to talk about the education side of cyber security that not many people know. So I'm glad that it came out through me. Thank you so much Nik for giving me this opportunity. Loved it.
Nik Mohanlal (36:16)
Yeah, amazing. No worries. No, I'm
glad you joined, you know. And if anyone wants to reach out to you, how can they reach out?
Bhavika (36:23)
I'll give you my email id, so it is bhavika.ketani at curtindubai.ac.ae. You can reach out to me through there. And even LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Nik Mohanlal (36:26)
Mm-hmm.
Amazing, cool. I'll pop that in the show notes on your LinkedIn and your email ID so people can reach out.
Thank you so much for joining. Appreciate it. You too.
Bhavika (36:40)
Thank you so much, Nik Have a nice day.
Nikhil Mohanlal (36:46)
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